Showing posts with label trinity. Show all posts

Tuesday 26 January 2016

For those who believe Jesus is God

Jesus of Nazareth (book) (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Those who think Jesus is God have they ever considered if they believe everything God Himself says?

When you believe Jesus is God do you believe that God is always telling the truth? According to the Bible He does not tell lies.

“"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” (Numbers 23:19 NAS)

“in order that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge in laying hold of the hope set before us.” (Hebrews 6:18 NAS)

God also tells us it is impossible for man to see God and to live.

“But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"” (Exodus 33:20 NAS)

As such nobody has ever been able to see God. Though those who claim Jesus is God forget that Jesus was born and was seen by many people.

That man who was born some 2000 years ago (in 4bce) was the realisation of what God had spoken in the Garden of Eden. At that time of Roman oppression God His Word came into the flesh. He was the sent one from God who had to shed light on the world and had to make his heavenly Father to be known to many. When you look carefully at the texts of the Bible you should see that it was not God Himself who was there but some one else.

“He was not the light, but [came] that he might bear witness of the light.” (John 1:8 NAS)

“"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14 NAS)

“30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His kingdom will have no end." 34 And Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:30-35 NAS)

“21 Now it came about when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also was baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." 23 And when He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being supposedly [the] son of Joseph, the [son] of Eli,” (Luke 3:21-23 NAS)

“"[You know of] Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and [how] He went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with Him.” (Acts 10:38 NAS)

“Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.” (Isaiah 53:12 NAS)

The child born to us, is a son given to us, to be a mediator between man and God, being seated next to God in the heavens. We are told God gave him authority and as such the government will rest on his shoulders and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6) Of all the gods the world knows this god is not The God, like angels, Moses, Pharaoh, Baal and all others who are called god as well are also not The God. But of all those gods mentioned in the bible Jesus is the highest, though he was at first lower than angels.

It was only after Jesus having giving his body for the sins of others that he was made higher than angels.

“7 "Thou Hast Made Him For A Little While Lower Than The Angels; Thou Hast Crowned Him With Glory And Honor, And Hast Appointed Him Over The Works Of Thy Hands; 8 Thou Hast Put All Things In Subjection Under His Feet." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him. 9 But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, [namely,] Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.” (Hebrews 2:7-9 NAS)

For those who believe Jesus is God did they realise that the Bible tells us no man can ever harm God and that death can not do anything to God. God being an eternal Spirit cannot die.

That Al-knowing eternal Spirit is the God of gods, Lord of lords or Lord of hosts.

“"For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality, nor take a bribe.” (Deuteronomy 10:17 NAS)

Them telling that Jesus has to be God because he gave his blood to save us and now all people are saved for ever, do forget that a spirit has no blood and flesh and that Jesus after his death proofs to his disciples he is not a spirit.

“33 And they arose that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven and those who were with them, 34 saying, "The Lord has really risen, and has appeared to Simon." 35 And they [began] to relate their experiences on the road and how He was recognized by them in the breaking of the bread. 36 And while they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst. 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 [And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.]” (Luke 24:33-40 NAS)

“"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."” (John 4:24 NAS)

Jesus being a being of flesh, blood and bones told those around him that they should not worship him but his heavenly Father Who is the Only One True God, the God of Abraham. It was also that God Who said about Jesus that he was His only begotten son.

Those who say Jesus is God ignore all those saying from God and from Jesus, who knew very well he could not do anything without God his heavenly Father Who is greater than Jesus. In case Jesus would have been God they both would be of the same greatness.

“17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." 18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Jesus therefore answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless [it is] something He sees the Father doing; for whatever [the Father] does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and greater works than these will He show Him, that you may marvel. 21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23 in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live. 26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is [the] Son of Man.” (John 5:17-27 NAS)

“27 "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 "You heard that I said to you, ’I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I. 29 "And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that when it comes to pass, you may believe. 30 "I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; 31 but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go from here.” (John 14:27-31 NAS)

Those who claim Jesus had to be God because otherwise we could not be saved should wonder if that does not mean God would have been a horrible potentate Who created rules or commandments of which He knew nobody could keep them.

Therefore we would like to propose to you to continue reading about this mater.
Please do read:

A god who gave his people commandments and laws he knew they never could keep to it

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Additional reading

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Related articles

Thursday 7 January 2016

Do you purpose that your mouth will not transgress

When we believe in God and have our heart in the right place we can count on Cod.

Though it is not always clear for us that God might be with us or has abandoned us. Even for Christ Jesus in the hour of his death it was not clear for him that God would still be with him. Naturally if Jesus was God, like so many Christians think, than God would always have been with Him because he himself was God and never had to be afraid of man because they could do God nothing and death also can do nothing to God. But as a real man of flesh and blood Jesus had enough reasons to fear man as well as death.

Coming from the root of King David Jesus also could think of the agony and fear David had gone through his life as well.
Today, reading his 17th psalm we perceive that the more troublesome the circumstances that surrounded him, the closer he came to God. With many other men it is the same. I must agree, also for me, it took two near death experiences before I got such an intimate relationship with God. Before the last terrible accident I was already a believer for years, but at moments had doubts about my faith and about others their belief, like the Trinity, if they would not be right and I be wrong. But in the end God gave me enough answers and got me to belief the non-trinitarian way is the right way.

In today’s Psalm 17 we read King David his prayer,

“13 Arise, O Jehovah, Confront him, cast him down: Deliver my soul from the wicked by thy sword; 14 From men by thy hand, O Jehovah, From men of the world, whose portion is in [this] life, And whose belly thou fillest with thy treasure: They are satisfied with children, And leave the rest of their substance to their babes.” (Psalms 17:13-14 ASV)

At that time also David was able to say that Jehovah, God, had tried his heart. He at that stage knew that God had visited him more than once and had given him more than once signs. There were moments in his life that he ignored those signs. We too sometimes forget God or ignore His directions.

The man of God, David, knows that God has tested him and thinks God will find nothing, but god knows the heart very well and knows our bad and good doings. As any man, David was also fallible and also did some faults, which perhaps seem horrible in our eyes, but god was able to forgive him when David repented. Also when we repent God shall be willing to be close to us and be forgiving.

We have to question ourselves who we want to follow, man and his traditions or God and His ordinances!

Are we willing to do like Jesus and King David, so that we can say like him

I have purposed that my mouth will not transgress … by the word of your lips … My steps have held fast to your paths …” (verses 3-5).

“The word of your lips” is of course, God’s word; God’s words gave David the strength to hold fast to godly ways: but do we use his word today as earnestly as David did then?
David wrote,

“I have called upon thee, for thou wilt answer me, O God: Incline thine ear unto me, [and] hear my speech.” (Psalms 17:6 ASV)

Are we willing to call onto God? Are we willing and looking forward to such an intimate relationship as David and Jesus had with their heavenly Father?

David established an intimacy in his relationship with his God. What an example this is for us – and we have the wondrous further blessing of a mediator and Saviour!

David next prays,

“8 Keep me as the apple of the eye; Hide me under the shadow of thy wings, 9 From the wicked that oppress me, My deadly enemies, that compass me about.” (Psalms 17:8-9 ASV)

Our we willing that Jehovah is with us even at the moments that we might be found in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness (Deuteronomy 32:10) When we prefer to follow Jesus, his teachings and believing his words instead of the doctrines of man, we may be sure that by this son of God we may be blessed and God shall be willing to be merciful and guiding us.

“Jehovah recompense thy work,“How precious is thy lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge under the shadow of thy wings.” (Psalms 36:7 ASV)

“«For the Chief Musician; [set to] Al-tashheth. [A Psalm] of David. Michtam; when he fled from Saul, in the cave.» Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me; For my soul taketh refuge in thee: Yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I take refuge, Until [these] calamities be overpast.” (Psalms 57:1 ASV)

“I will dwell in thy tabernacle for ever: I will take refuge in the covert of thy wings. [[Selah” (Psalms 61:4 ASV)

“For thou hast been my help, And in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice.” (Psalms 63:7 ASV)

“1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust. 3 For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence. 4 He will cover thee with his pinions, And under his wings shalt thou take refuge: His truth is a shield and a buckler.” (Psalms 91:1-4 ASV)

and a full reward be given thee of Jehovah, the God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to take refuge.” (Ruth 2:12 ASV)

In God we may trust. Every day of the year god is wiling to hear our call and to be with us. When we are willing to give our heart to Him he shall be there too for us. Doubtless kindness and mercy shall follow.

“Surely goodness and lovingkindness shall follow me all the days of my life; And I shall dwell in the house of Jehovah for ever.” (Psalms 23:6 ASV)

“One thing have I asked of Jehovah, that will I seek after; That I may dwell in the house of Jehovah all the days of my life, To behold the beauty of Jehovah, And to inquire in his temple.” (Psalms 27:4 ASV)

Dare we come close to God, like David and Jesus did? Are we willing to put our will aside, like Jesus did not his own will (which he would have done when he was God) but fulfilled God's Will? Would we love it to be kept as "the apple of God's eye"?

May our steps hold fast to God’s paths that we may be “willing” as God’s judgements falls on our world, as they fell on Jerusalem long ago. May we, especially at that time, say to our Saviour as David said to God in this Psalm,

“Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings, from the wicked who do me violence …” (verses 8,9).

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Preceding article: A heart in the right place and brightly burning faith

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Tuesday 9 June 2015

Americans really thinking the Messiah Christ had an English name

King James Version of the Bible (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

It is incredible how many Anglophone people we encounter who really think the Messiah had an English name.

We even find Americans like Dan Popp who find it foolishness that Americans don't need to learn anything about the Jewish history or culture, and find it ridiculous that there are folks who go around substituting "Yeshua" for "Jesus". He thinks they are are not just harmless know-nothings, but it may be that they're trying to re-Jewify something that God has made universal.

He is afraid that the "Yeshua" people are in the process of falling into the first error – trying to mash up Law and Grace.

He really seem to think all the New Testament authors wrote "Jesus" rather than "Yeshua" in the Holy Scriptures. This gives the impression that he is really convinced that the Greek writers used the English translation for the real name of the Nazarene man who gave his life for all living people.

He also does not seem to see that the Apostles wrote "Yeshua" or "Jeshua" in modern spelling or in the spelling of other languages (like in English, Dutch, French) He also seem to think that the master teacher whom he considers also to be God gave Simon Bar-Jonah a Greek name but says it was "Peter". Peter is not at all a Greek name and in other languages we may find his name also be translated as "Peter" but totally differently pronounced than English speaking people do. In other languages they may say Petrus, which Paul freely converted to its Hebrew form, Cephas.

Then Dan Popp says

No such translation was ever done with the name of Christ in the New Testament. {It's Jesus, not Yeshua}

He also does seem to forget how the names where altered at the time of Constantine, whose real name was also not Constantine but Constantinus. Though lots of English people do want all other people having the name how they want to pronounce it in their language.

In 325 was decided to agree to let the God of the followers of Christ be part of the godcircle of the Romans and the Greek. some also started to consider Jesus as a god and as such several could agree for a three headed god like in the Roman and Greek culture. those who wanted the Nazarene teacher to be their god did find they had to be the 'upper god' and as such was chosen for the name 'Hail Zeus' or 'Issou' which you can find in many translations of the Scriptures. This Issou became in several languages Jesu or Chesu and in English first Iesus and later Jesus.

Dan Popp questions:

What if God wanted to present His Son as more than just the parochial savior of the Jews? What if He wanted to impart more than the mere sound of the name – what if He wished the Gentile listener to understand the meaning of the name ("The Salvation of Yahweh" or "Yahweh is Salvation.") What if He wanted to crush faux Jews who run around gushing about "Yeshua?" {It's Jesus, not Yeshua}

Again he does not seem to see what Jeshua or Joshua really means and what Issou or Iéssou really means. Jehovah saves, or that the child was given the name as signification, like Joshua, that God was with it and which parents gave also to honour the God Who brought salvation. Jehovah God is the One God of gods Who took care that this child was born. He was it Who demanded to give the child the name Jeshua and not 'Hail Zeus' or Jesus.

Dan Popp writes further:

So, back to the Yeshua-ites. If the Holy Spirit knows Christ best, never makes a mistake, and has a purpose (though it may be obscure to us) for identifying the Second Person of the Trinity as "Jesus," what kind of malfunction would we be experiencing to try to correct Him? {It's Jesus, not Yeshua}

Here again we do see that he does not want to accept what the Holy Spirit brings over to the world. Nowhere in the Bible you shall find the word 'Holy Trinity', neither shall you be finding that there is a three-godhead, or three-union god. Clearly in the Bible is indicated that God is an eternal Spirit who can not be seen by man and Who does not tell lies. that God told clearly about that man in the river Jordan who was seen by many, that it was his son. God never told it was Him standing there. God also told he could not be tempted, but after his baptism Jesus was tempted more than once. did Popp's god make than mistakes or said confusing things, though Popp himself says that the Holy Spirit, Who is God, does not make mistakes.

Could it not be that lots of Americans and lots of English speaking people are mistaken to think that all those Biblical characters had English names?

The translation of names happened. So we do not say it has to be turned back. But we have to be honest and have to accept that the characters in the time of Jesus did not have English names and even did not speak English at all. Therefore English people should also accept that others use the real name of those characters or even also use translations to their language of those characters. Also for the way of writing the English people should accept that the way of writing the sounds has changed by the time passing and that we may accept a new modern spelling, but always shave to remind of the old ways.

It is the same for lots of English speaking people who contestate that only the King James version is the True Bible and is the only bible which should be used, as if in the other language or even in English there is no other right translation. Typically of those who so strongly debate for the only use of the King James version is that they often use one of the man versions and never use the original King James translation. And what for use would it be to use the old first translation to reach people and to get them interested in the word of God?

But let us remember that in that Bible is clearly written that there is only One true God and that Jeshua (Iesus or Jesus) is His only begotten son.

Isa 42:8 KJV-1611 I am the Lord; that is my name, and my glory will I not giue to another, neither my praise to grauen images.

Exo 20:7 KJV-1611 Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vaine: for the Lord will not holde him guiltlesse, that taketh his Name in vaine.

Luk 1:30-35 KJV-1611 And the Angel said vnto her, Feare not, Marie, for thou hast found fauour with God. (31) And behold, thou shalt conceiue in thy wombe, and bring forth a sonne, and shalt call his name Iesus. (32) He shall be great, and shall be called the sonne of the Highest, and the Lord God shall giue vnto him the throne of his father Dauid. (33) And hee shall reigne ouer the house of Iacob for euer, and of his kingdome there shall be no end. (34) Then said Marie vnto the Angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? (35) And the Angel answered and said vnto her, The holy Ghost shall come vpon thee, and the power of the Highest shall ouershadow thee. Therefore also that holy thing which shall bee borne of thee, shall bee called the sonne of God.

Luk 3:21-23 KJV-1611 Now when all the people were baptized, and it came to passe that Iesus also being baptized, and praying, the heauen was opened: (22) And the holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a Doue vpon him, and a voice came from heauen, which said, Thou art my beloued sonne, in thee I am well pleased. (23) And Iesus himselfe began to be about thirty yeeres of age, being (as was supposed) the sonne of Ioseph, which was the sonne of Heli,

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Find the article spoken off: It's Jesus, not Yeshua

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Wednesday 27 May 2015

A Triple God or simply a rather simple One God

The Scutum Fidei, a diagram frequently used by Christian apologists to explain the Trinity. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In Christendom the majority of the population holds on human doctrines and wants to bow down to a deity that would consist of three people: one God the Father, a god the son and God the Holy Spirit.

The majority of Christians prefer to see a personification of man to divinity. This allows them to also identify more easily with God. Doing so, they overlook the fact that their mind is not a separate person or personality, although the majority wants to believe that their spirit can live separately from them. They even believe that after death the soul goes out of their body and goes to continue to live on separately. They forget that, if they think, their mind works. If they let their thoughts go on anything this is a consequence of their brain activity taking their minds at 'work'.
The spirit of man and the Spirit of God thus seize the active powers that place in thought, contemplating, talking, handling or doing an activity.
As for a man using his mind he will be able to do things, though when he is not using his mind he will not be able to do anything. The same for God when He does something He uses His Spirit, His Working Force. For man the brains take care we can come to an active position. As soon as the brain does not work any more, or when the brains are death, we are considered death as well. We do need the force of our brains, i.e. we do need our spirit to take part of life.

The effect of our or God His brain or brains, as it is in all humans is a force, even with a God Force. The Holy Spirit is God's power. the spirit we do have is the possibility God gives us to think and handle.
In the Holy Scriptures it is written as God His Breath being given to man, and as such giving us life. The Holy Spirit is the Causer of God His thinking, His talking, His acting, but also the life bringing force to man. Without the Spirit, or without the mind of God nothing can not come about. God spoke and it came to be. This is informed already to us from the first words in Scripture which state that God spoke and it came into being, it was created. (Genesis)

That Spiritual Being, That existed before everything came into being, was the God Who said of Himself that He is an Eternal Spirit that man can not see or man would die if he saw this Spirit God.

Exo 33:20 EWB-CB And Jehovah said, Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.

One may ask whether the many Christians do know and do believe the words of the Bible. Do they believe that what is said in it is the truth and that God tells only the truth?

In the Book of Books God says about Himself that He is a spirit and that spirits have no flesh and blood. Do we not see in the New Testament, Jesus himself testifying that he is not a spirit, and that his followers could even see his wounds he kept from his suspension? According to Scripture God can not die, but many Christians wish to believe that Jesus is God and died on the cross. Of course it could be that they assume that Jesus was indeed God and would have faked his death. But what sense would it have for God to do if he died? What does He get from such an act?

It might not feel useful having a god who is omnipotent, al-knowing, eternal, would did as if he died on the cross to save mankind. God can speak one word and provide salvation for man. Why then would he have waited so many years to come to earth while he was there with man in the Garden of Eden and could bring immediate salvation for man? Is God then of such cruel nature that he wanted to see man suffering first a bit longer?

God is a God of love and He does not feel good that the people should suffer. It is true that man wanted to do his own thing and God gave him that opportunity. This man must now take care of himself and can show if he can get gets his planning on his own. Of course, man can not live without God, but he seems not yet to have understood this. The human being is very obtuse.

Also concerning the understanding Who God is and what God requires of man, for humanity, it seems very difficult to grasp. The vast majority of humankind still thinks God is a ridiculous invention of mankind and brings nothing to the man. However, man needs his Creator. Without Creator is the creation nothing.

But to get there to have them see that the Creator could act alone and nobody needs to do His work is just oh so difficult for most people to grasp. It seems so incredible that only One Being would be able to create and manage the whole world. For many, it even seems unjust that the Creator of all created things on his own and would have a say over it all.

Man also feels so high that he believes there is indeed a human being in the game that is divine and as worthy as the Creator God, even more, that he himself created the things. So they make Jesus Christ the creator or co-creator, instead of recognizing that God speaks as any official in the royal plural form (pluralis major or royal we). That He is the One in the Bereshith Who speaks brining everything in to being by His Voice, many do not understand. In the Bereshith or Genesis we are told the Creation and find the Former or Maker speaking in the plural which is very normal because He that is Greatness not only covers everything but is also Head, King of kings of everyone and everything.

Psa 83:18 EWB-CB That Israel may know that Thou, Whose name alone is JEHOVAH, Art the MOST HIGH over all the earth. To the chief Musician relating to Gittith, a winepress.

Jer 10:7 EWB-CB Who would not fear Thee, O King of nations? for to Thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto Thee.

Dan 2:37 EWB-CB Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

Dan 2:47 EWB-CB The king answered unto Daniel, and said, "Of a truth it is, that your God He is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

Dan 4:25 EWB-CB That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall suffer thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall drench thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the MOST HIGH hath dominion in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will.

He who is the Supreme and to Whom belongs Dominion of everything, to Him belongs all honour and all worship. He is the One True God of gods. No god in the world is more or less valuable than him.

Psa 75:4-7 EWB-CB I said unto the arrogant, "Deal not foolishly:"And to the wicked, "Lift not up the horn: (5) Lift not up your horn on high: Nor speak arrogantly of the Rock. (6) For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, Nor from the south. (7) No God is the judge: He putteth down one, and setteth up another.

Eze 26:6-7 EWB-CB And her daughter cities and towns inland shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD. (7) For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and a gathered host, and much people.

Eze 36:21-28 EWB-CB But I had pity for Mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations, whither they went. (22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for Mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the nations, whither ye went. (23) And I will sanctify My great name, which was profaned among the nations, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in them before your eyes. (24) For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you on to your own soil. (25) Then will I throw clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your dirty idols, will I cleanse you. (26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put My spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them. (28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall become to Me a People, and I will become to you a God.

Jer 31:33 EWB-CB But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My People.

Gen 17:7-8 EWB-CB And I will establish My covenant [unconditional] between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (8) And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

The One that is to us a god is not composed of several entities, but only One God.

Gen 26:24 EWB-CB And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, "I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for My servant Abraham's sake."

Mat 22:32 EWB-CB I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of dead people, but of living people.

Exo 15:11 EWB-CB Who is like unto Thee, O LORD, among the mighty ones? Who is like Thee, glorious in holiness, to be revered in praising Him for His wondrous acts ?

Deu 3:24 EWB-CB O Lord GOD, Thou hast begun to shew Thy servant Thy greatness, and Thy mighty works: for what God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to Thy works, and according to Thy might?

Traditionally, there were happily enough people who knew who their and our God was supposed to be.

1Sa 2:2 EWB-CB There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Deu 4:35 EWB-CB Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD He is God; there is none else beside Him.

Isa 44:6 EWB-CB Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Kinsman Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God.

We should take it at heart that there is no other god besides the Elohim Hashem Jehovah.

Isa 45:18 EWB-CB For thus saith the LORD The Creator of the heavens; God Himself The Former of the earth and The Maker of it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

It is the Former, the divine Creator who is the only True God, God above all gods. His is strength and to Him belongs all power.

Psa 92:8 EWB-CB But Thou, LORD, art enthroned on high for evermore.

Psa 83:18 EWB-CB That Israel may know that Thou, Whose name alone is JEHOVAH, Art the MOST HIGH over all the earth. To the chief Musician relating to Gittith, a winepress.

Psa 86:8-10 EWB-CB Among the judges there is none like unto Thee, O Lord; Neither are there any works like unto Thy works. (9) All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, O Lord; And shall glorify Thy name. (10) For Thou art great, a doer of wondrous things: Thou art God alone.

Psa 97:9 EWB-CB For Thou, LORD, art Most High above all the earth: Thou art exalted far above all rulers.

Psa 104:1 EWB-CB Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, Thou art very great; Thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

Psa 135:5 EWB-CB For I know that the LORD is great, And that our Lord is above all earthly rulers.

1Ch 29:11 EWB-CB Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is Thine; Thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and Thou art exalted as head above all.

Mat 6:13 EWB-CB And bring us not into trial, but rescue us away from the evil one: For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Even kings David, Saul and Jesus knew that they could not match the Most High who is the only God.

Mar 10:18 EWB-CB And Jesus said unto him, "Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

1Sa 2:2 EWB-CB There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Psa 99:5 EWB-CB Exalt ye the LORD our God, And worship at His footstool; For He is holy.

Only He, the Most High God should be above everything and to be worshipped. Nobody else we need to pray to or to bow down before anyone else, for there is no god above the Most High God, Jehovah Elohim Hashem.

Exo 6:2-3 EWB-CB And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am Jehovah: (3) And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of GOD ALMIGHTY, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not understood to them.

Jesus was seen by many who did not fall death, but God, who tells no lies, can not be seen by humans and stay alive.

Exo 33:20 EWB-CB And Jehovah said, Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.

1Ti 6:15-16 EWB-CB Which [appearing] in His own seasons He shall shew, the blessed and only God a mighty Prince, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (16) Who only hath deathlessness, inhabiting in light unapproachable;Whom no one of men hath seen, nor can see: to Whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

What we can see is the Greatness, His Power and His Splendour.

Deu 5:24 EWB-CB And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

Psa 47:2 EWB-CB For the LORD MOST HIGH is to be reverenced; He is a great King over all the earth.

Joh 1:18 EWB-CB No man [human eye] hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, He Who is into the bosom of the Father, That One revealed Him.

Jesus never claimed to be God. He has brought a more accurate insight into Who the divine Father is. It is God who has given the authority to Jesus. After Jesus his death, he has been appointed as a mediator between God and man.

Mat 11:25-27 EWB-CB In that season Jesus prayed and said, I openly confess to Thee, O Father, Lord of the heaven and the earth, because Thou didst hide these things from wise ones and prudent ones, and hast revealed them unto babes. (26) Even so, Father: for so it became well pleasing in Thy sight. (27) All things were [at some definite time] delivered unto Me by My Father: and no man fully knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither fully knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son intendeth to unveil and reveal Him.

Luk 10:22 EWB-CB All things were delivered to Me by My Father: and no man getteth to know Who the Son is, except the Father; and Who the Father is, except the Son, and he to whom the Son willeth to reveal Him."

Joh 6:44-46 EWB-CB "No man is able to come to Me, except the Father Which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (45) It standeth written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned from the Father, cometh unto Me. (46) Not that any man hath seen the Father, if not He Which is from beside God, He hath seen the Father.

We must also clearly realize who we want to recognize as God. We must realize that there is Only One God, the God of Israel.

Deu 6:4-9 EWB-CB Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is a compound unity LORD: (5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (6) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. (8) And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hands, and they shall be for watch posts between thine eyes. (9) And thou shalt write them upon the door-posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

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Dutch version:

Een Drievoudige God of simpelweg een éénvoudige God

Find related Bible verses:

El-Shaddai God Almighty Who no-one may see and live
No man see the Almighty God and live

El Shaddai Who appeared unto Abraham

Bible, sword of the Spirit to come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man

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Monday 20 April 2015

Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine

cuadro que representa a la Trinidad (santuario della Santissima Trinità - Vallepietra RM) (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Several people have difficulty with taking the words of the bible like they are written. When there is written that God says "This is my beloved son" they still prefer to read that God says He came down and is standing there being incarnated, instead of His son standing there.

We got a message saying

Now here is one of the problems I have with the Trinity Doctrine:

If it was taught by the Bible then why didn't Christians of the first century believe in it? Why didn't Christians of the second century believe in it, or Christians of the third century believe in it? The council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. only talked about the Son and Father, but not the Holy Spirit. So if you do not believe in the Trinity then you share the Faith of Christians for more than 300 years after the death and resurrection of Christ.

And that sums up the reason why we prefer too to keep to the same faith of Jesus and his disciples, worshipping the Only One True God, the God of Abraham. By the years lots of false teachings entered Christianity and as the leaders of the country insisted to have a worship system allowing all the traditions of the regions being kept, several preachers and priests adapted their teachings and way of worship to the regional customs.

bambootigerwrites:

First let's look at a definition of the Trinity: do you agree with this one?

According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons

(the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each

said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three "Persons" are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists.

First of all there are not three divine persons described in the first chapter of John's gospel, the Word is not described as eternal here or anywhere else, and the Word is not said to be almighty, or equal with God, or being one with God. but the Word is described here as a separate and distinct individual since the Greek text says that he is "toward (pros)" God, rather than using the prepasition for "in (en)", "from (apo)", or "out of (ek)" , and in a diagram of Greek prepositions "toward" would have to be describing someone outside of and separate and distinct from God.

So not only does the word "Trinity" appear here, but neither does any possible description of a Trinity, and for someone to say that the Word is equal to God because it is with him they would have to explain why this is the case for the Word, but not for the Angels who are elsewhere said to be with God as well.

(Proverbs 8:22) 22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of
his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.

Livingbreeze writes:

Commentators have observed (cf. Keener) that the book of John is bracketed by references to Jesus as theos (God - I want to be clear that I am not arguing here for a translation of Jn. 1:1, only that application of the title theos to Jesus) in Jn 1:1 and Jn 20:28. This seems to draw the attention of the reader to Jesus as theos in both its introductory and concluding remarks.

Jesus is also called theos in v. 18 and seems to reflect in a couple of ways both on Jn 1:1 and Jn 20:28. First, it links the prologue and the remainder of the Gospel by highlighting the dual themes of the Father as directly and fully known to the Son and the Son as the unique exegete of the Father - themes that are prominent throughout the Gospel. Second, together with the opening verse of the Prologue, verse 18 forms one of the two bookends that support and give shape to the whole Gospel, for 1:1 and 1:18 (at the beginning and the end of the Prologue) and 20:28 (at the end of the Gospel) all use theos of Jesus, whether he be thought of as the eternally preexistent Logos (1:1), the incarnate Son (1:18), or the risen Christ (20:28). The evangelist thereby indicates that the acknowledgment of the messiahship of Jesus (20:31) necessarily involves belief in his deity.

As elsewhere in John, the title ho uios tou theou (the Son of God), which is in apposition to ho christos (the Christ) in John 20:31, denotes more than simply the Davidic Messiah. The Gospel was written to produce belief that Jesus was the promised Jewish Messiah and that this Messiah was none other than the "one and only" Son of God who had come from the Father (Jn 11:42; 17:8), who shared his nature (Jn 1:1, 18; 10:30) and fellowship (Jn 1:18; 14:11) and who therefore might appropriately be addressed and worshipped as ho theos mou ("My God"). Unique sonship implies deity (Jn 5:18; cf. 19:7).

That is basically what I think - that because Jesus is God (theos) he may rightfully be called Messiah and Son of God. Unless the former Jn 20:28 is true the latter Jn 20:31 is not true.

So when making reference to God, and God alone, which person are we refering to?

In surveys of the NT use of theos it has been suggested that when theos occurs with the article it generally means the Father. That would suggest that in Acts it is the Father who annoints the Son with the Holy Spirit.

I think this applies to your question regarding the "Revelation of Christ" as well.

In the modern era, in his treatment of Sabellianism and the beginning of the trinitarian discussion, W. P. du Bose remarks (72; similarily Liddon, Romans, 154) that "the Christian doctrine of the Trinity was perhaps before anything else an effor to express how Jesus was God (theos) and yet in another sense was not God (ho theos), that is to say was not the whole Godhead." In particular reference to Johannine usage (which is found to be representative of the NT in general; cf. Murray, 37), B. F. Westcott claims that "the difference between ho theos and theos is such as might have been expected antecedently. The former brings before us the Personal God who has been revealed to us in a personal relation to ourselves: the latter fixes our thoughts on the general conception of the Divine Character and Being" (Epistles, 172).

About the Trinity it self we can find:

from the Encyclopedia Britannica 2005:

The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. Initially, both the requirements of monotheism inherited from the Old Testament and the implications of the need to interpret the biblical teaching to Greco-Roman religions seemed to demand that the divine in Christ as the Word, or Logos, be interpreted as subordinate to the Supreme Being. An alternative solution was to interpret Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three modes of the self-disclosure of the one God but not as distinct within the being of God itself. The first tendency recognized the distinctness among the three, but at the cost of their equality and hence of their unity (subordinationism); the second came to terms with their unity, but at the cost of their distinctness as “persons” (modalism). It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons.

The Council of Nicaea in 325 stated the crucial formula for that doctrine in its confession that the Son is “of the same substance [homoousios] as the Father,” even though it said very little aboutthe Holy Spirit. Over the next half century, Athanasius defended and refined the Nicene formula, and, by the end of the 4th century, under the leadership of Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus (the Cappadocian Fathers), the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.

Arthur Weigall, in his book The Paganism in Our Christianity, states:

"Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear."

He says the idea of a coequal trinity

"was only adopted by the [Roman Catholic] Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan."

On page 198 of his book Weigall gives a brief history of the trinity doctrine, saying:

"In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote: ‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bound by threes, for the end, the middle, and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity.’

The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth. The Hindu trinity of Brahman, Siva, and Vishnu is another of the many and widespread instances of this theological conception. The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognized the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One, and the Apostles’ Creed, which is the earliest of the formulated articles of Christian faith, does not mention it."

(1 Timothy 4:1) 4 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,

Please do find also to read:

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Welcome

Welcome at this zone created by Marcus Ampe for the Belgian Free Christadelphians, where previous articles from the MSN Groups and Multiply are brought together and made available again to the general public. On 2012 October 26 this site came into development and new articles shall be added next to our main site and to the Christadelphian Ecclesia site: Christadelphian Ecclesia.
You are welcome at that site to find more articles.

All who want to follow Jesus/Jeshua (Yeshua/Yahsua) from Nazareth, the Christ, the Messiah and wants to be united with people who sincerely want to keep to those teachings of this masterteacher are welcome to share their love for Christ and their hope for the coming Kingdom.

The names "Christadelphia" and 'Christadelphian' is compounded of two Greek words: 'christos' and 'adelphoi' and means 'brethren in Christ'.

This site is created by a Free Christadelphian only bounded to Jesus Christ. We are open to anybody who wants to share the brotherly love of Christ. Coming together by a common belief in 'the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ' (Acts 8:12).

In the older Multiply messages links to Multiply shall not always work from 2012 December 1, but you shall be able to find them by copying and pasting the title in the search machine. I have worked on re-editing those links from 2005 onwards, so that they could work in the future, but it became a to much time consuming job, so I stopped doing it after a while. (My apologies for certain links not working any more.)

Thanks for visiting us and hope to see you again.

Welkom

Wij wensen allen welkom die hier op deze pagina's terecht komen en hopen dat zij geïnspireerd mogen geraken om verder de Bijbel ter hand te nemen en zelf op onderzoek te gaan wat er in de Heilige Schrift werkelijk staat.

De namen "Christadelphia" en "Christadelphian" is een samentelling van twee Griekse woorden : "Christos" en "adelphoi" en betekent 'broer in Christus'. De Christadelphians zijn een groep van mensen die samen verbonden zijn door hun gemeenschappelijk geloof betreffende de dingen aangaande het Koninkrijk van God en de naam van Jezus Christus (Jeshua, de Messias) (Handelingen van de Apostelen 8v12).
Christadelphian mensen zouden tot een wereldwijde gemeenschap moeten behoren, wiens doel is zo trouw als mogelijke de leerstelling en voorbeeld van Jezus/Jehsua Christus te volgen, zoals het geregistreerd staat in de Bijbel.
In een wereld die vol is van onzekerheden genieten wij van een eenvoudig, rechtstreeks en logisch geloof, dat nu al vrede en voldoening aanbiedt en de belofte van het nog te komen eeuwigdurende vreugderijk: het Koninkijk van God.

Op deze site, gecreëerd door Marcus Ampe voor de Vrije Belgische Christadelphians, of Broeders in Christus, zijn in oktober 2012 de vroegere berichten uit de MSN Groepen en Multiply samen gebracht en terug zichtbaar gemaakt voor het algemeen publiek.

Meerdere linken in de vroegere artikelen zullen vermoedelijk niet werken, maar u kan de titel dan kopiëren en plakken in het "Zoek" venster om zo bij het juiste artikel te komen. Ik maakte er werk van om de artikelen vanaf 2005 terug te editen en daarin de linken te vernieuwen, zodat zij terug zouden werken. Maar dit vroeg zo veel tijd dat ik het heb opgegeven. Daarom verzoek ik mij te verontschuldigen indien u een link tegen komt die niet meer werkt.

Vanaf 26 oktober 2012 is deze website opengesteld naar het publiek en zullen er in de toekomst nog enkele artikelen bij komen. Maar de meerderheid van de teksten zullen nu geplaatst worden op de site van de Vlaamse Broeders in Christus of Christadelphians en op de kerkgemeenschapssite
Christadelphian Ecclesia.

Graag ontmoeten wij u daar voor meerdere artikelen.

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