Showing posts with label Jewish roots. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jewish roots. Show all posts

Wednesday 18 June 2014

Full text of Pope Francis' Interview with 'La Vanguardia'

.- In an interview granted with Spanish-language magazine "La Vanguardia" on Monday, Pope Francis lauded Pius XII for his efforts in saving Jews, discussed Orthodox-Catholic relations, as well as the motivations behind his prayer meeting at the Vatican last Sunday.

Below, please find the full text of his interview in English:


Interview with Pope Francis: “One has to take the secession of a nation with grain of salt.”

“Our world economic system can’t take it anymore,” says the Bishop of Rome in an interview with La Vanguardia. “I’m no illumined one. I didn’t bring any personal projects under my arm.” “We are throwing away an entire generation to maintain a system that isn’t good,” he opines with respect to unemployed youth.

“The persecuted Christians are a concern that touches me very deeply as a pastor. I know a lot about persecutions but it doesn’t seem prudent to talk about them here so I don’t offend anyone. But in some places it is prohibited to have a Bible or teach the catechism or wear a cross… What I would like to be clear on is one thing, I am convinced that the persecution against Christians today is stronger than in the first centuries of the Church. Today there are more Christian martyrs than in that period. And, it's not because of fantasy, it’s because of the numbers."

Pope Francis received us last Monday in the Vatican - a day after the prayer for peace with the presidents of Israel and Palestine - for this exclusive interview with “La Vanguardia.” The Pope was happy to have done everything possible for understanding between Israelis and Palestinians.
Violence in the name of God dominates the Middle East.

It's a contradiction. Violence in the name of God does not correspond with our time. It's something ancient. With historical perspective, one has to say that Christians, at times, have practiced it. When I think of the Thirty Years War, there was violence in the name of God. Today it is unimaginable, right? We arrive, sometimes, by way of religion to very serious, very grave contradictions. Fundamentalism, for example. The three religions, we have our fundamentalist groups, small in relation to all the rest.

And, what do you think about fundamentalism?

A fundamentalist group, although it may not kill anyone, although it may not strike anyone, is violent. The mental structure of fundamentalists is violence in the name of God.

Some say that you are a revolutionary.

We should call the great Mina Mazzini, the Italian singer, and tell her “take this hand, gypsy” and have her read into my past, to see what [she finds]. (He laughs) For me, the great revolution is going to the roots, recognizing them and seeing what those roots have to say to us today. There is no contradiction between [being a] revolutionary and going to the roots. Moreso even, I think that the way to make true changes is identity. You can never take a step in life if it’s not from behind, without knowing where I come from, what last name I have, what cultural or religious last name I have.

You have broken many security protocols to bring yourself closer to the people.

I know that something could happen to me, but it’s in the hands of God. I remember that in Brazil they had prepared a closed Popemobile for me, with glass, but I couldn’t greet the people and tell them that I love them from within a sardine tin. Even if it’s made of glass, for me that is a wall. It’s true that something could happen to me, but let’s be realistic, at my age I don’t have much to lose.  

Why is it important that the Church be poor and humble?

Poverty and humility are at the center of the Gospel and I say it in a theological sense, not in a sociological one. You can't understand the Gospel without poverty, but we have to distinguish it from pauperism. I think that Jesus wants us bishops not to be princes but servants.

What can the Church do to reduce the growing inequality between the rich and the poor?

It’s proven that with the food that is left over we could feed the people who are hungry. When you see photographs of undernourished kids in different parts of the world, you take your head in your hand, it incomprehensible. I believe that we are in a world economic system that isn’t good. At the center of all economic systems must be man, man and woman, and everything else must be in service of this man. But we have put money at the center, the god of money. We have fallen into a sin of idolatry, the idolatry of money.

The economy is moved by the ambition of having more and, paradoxically, it feeds a throwaway culture. Young people are thrown away when their natality is limited. The elderly are also discarded because they don’t serve any use anymore, they don’t produce, this passive class… In throwing away the kids and elderly, the future of a people is thrown away because the young people are going to push forcefully forward and because the elderly give us wisdom. They have the memory of that people and they have to pass it on to the young people. And now also it is in style to throw the young people away with unemployment. The rate of unemployment is very worrisome to me, which in some countries is over 50%. Someone told me that 75 million young Europeans under 25 years of age are unemployed. That is an atrocity. But we are discarding an entire generation to maintain an economic system that can’t hold up anymore, a system that to survive must make war, as the great empires have always done. But as a Third World War can’t be done, they make zonal wars. What does this mean? That they produce and sell weapons, and with this the balance sheets of the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, obviously they are sorted. This unique thought takes away the wealth of diversity of thought and therefore the wealth of a dialogue between peoples. Well understood globalization is a wealth. Poorly understood globalization is that which nullifies differences. It is like a sphere in which all points are equidistant from the center. A globalization that enriches is like a polyhedron, all united but each preserving its particularity, its wealth, its identity, and this isn’t given. And this does not happen.

Does the conflict between Catalunya and Spain worry you?

All division worries me. There is independence by emancipation and independence by secession. The independences by emancipation, for example, are American, that they were emancipated from the European States. The independences of nations by secession is a dismemberment, sometimes it’s very obvious. Let’s think of the former Yugoslavia. Obviously, there are nations with cultures so different that couldn’t even be stuck together with glue. The Yugoslavian case is very clear, but I ask myself if it is so clear in other cases. Scotland, Padania, Catalunya. There will be cases that will be just and cases that will not be just, but the secession of a nation without an antecedent of mandatory unity, one has to take it with a lot of grains of salt and analyze it case by case.

The prayer for peace from Sunday wasn’t easy to organize nor did it have precedents in the Middle East nor in the world. How did you feel?

You know that it wasn’t easy because you were there, and much of that achievement is due to you. I felt that it was something that can accidentally happen to all of us. Here, in the Vatican,99% said it would not happen and then the 1% started to grow. I felt that we were feeling pushed towards something that had not occurred to us and that, little by little, started to take shape. It was not at all a political act - I felt that from the beginning - but it was rather a religious act: opening a window to the world.

Why did you choose to place yourself in the eye of the hurricane, the Middle East?

The true eye of the hurricane, due to the enthusiasm that there was, was the World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro last year. I decided to go to the Holy Land because President Peres invited me. I knew that his mandate would finish this Spring, so I felt obliged, in some way, to go beforehand. His invitation accelerated the trip. I did not think of doing it.

Why is it important for every Christian to visit Jerusalem and the Holy Land?

Because of revelation. For us, it all started there. It is like “heaven on earth.” A foretaste of what awaits us hereafter, in the heavenly Jerusalem.

You and your friend, the Rabbi Skorka, hugged each other in front of the Western Wall. What importance has that gesture had for the reconciliation between Christians and Jews?

Well, my good friend professor Omar Abu, president of the Institute for Inter-religious Dialogue of Buenos Aires, was also at the Wall. I wanted to invite him. He is a very religious man and a father-of-two. He is also friends with Rabbi Skorka and I love them both a lot, and I wanted that that friendship between the three be seen as a witness.

You told me a year ago that “within every Christian there is a Jew.”

Perhaps it would be more correct to say “you cannot live your Christianity, you cannot be a real Christian, if you do not recognize your Jewish roots.” I don’t speak of Jewish in the sense of the Semitic race but rather in the religious sense. I think that inter-religious dialogue needs to deepen in this, in Christianity’s Jewish root and in the Christian flowering of Judaism. I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it can be done as brothers. I pray every day the divine office every day with the Psalms of David. We do the 150 psalms in one week. My prayer is Jewish and I have the Eucharist, which is Christian.

How do you see anti-Semitism?

I cannot explain why it happens, but I think it is very linked, in general, and without it being a fixed rule, to the right wing.  Antisemitism usually nests better in right-wing political tendencies that in the left, right? And it still continues (like this). We even have those who deny the holocaust, which is crazy.

One of your projects is to open the Vatican archives on the Holocaust.

They will bring a lot of light. 

Does it worry you something could be discovered?

What worries me regarding this subject is the figure of Pius XII, the Pope that led the Church during World War II. They have said all sorts of things about poor Pius XII. But we need to remember that before he was seen as the great defender of the Jews. He hid many in convents in Rome and in other Italian cities, and also in the residence of Castel Gandolfo. Forty-two babies, children of Jews and other persecuted who sought refuge there were born there, in the Pope’s room, in his own bed. I don’t want to say that Pius XII did not make any mistakes - I myself make many - but one needs to see his role in the context of the time. For example, was it better for him not to speak so that more Jews would not be killed or for him to speak? I also want to say that sometimes I get “existential hives” when I see that everyone takes it out against the Church and Pius XII, and they forget the great powers. Did you know that they knew the rail network of the Nazis perfectly well to take the Jews to concentration camps? They had the pictures. But they did not bomb those railroad tracks. Why? It would be best if we spoke a bit about everything.

Do you still feel like a parish priest or do you assume your role as head of the Church?

The dimension of parish priest is that which most shows my vocation. Serving the people comes from within me. Turn off the lights to not spend a lot of money, for example. They are things that a parish priest does. But I also feel like the Pope. It helps me to do things seriously. My collaborators are very serious and professional. I have help to carry out my duty. One doesn’t need to play the parish priest Pope. It would be immature. When a head of state comes, I have to receive him with the dignity and the protocol that are deserved. It is true that with the protocol I have my problems, but one has to respect it.

You are changing a lot of things. Towards what future are these changes going?

I am no illumined one. I don’t have any personal project that I’ve brought with me under an arm, simply because I never thought that they were going to leave me here, in the Vatican. Everyone knows this. I came with a little piece of luggage to go straight back to Buenos Aires. What I am doing is carrying out what we cardinals reflected upon during the General Congregations, that is to say, in the meetings that, during the conclave, we all maintained every day to discuss the problems of the Church. From there come reflections and recommendations. One very concrete one was that the next Pope had to count on an external council, that is, a team of assessors that didn’t live in the Vatican.

And you created the so-called Council of Eight.

They are eight cardinals from all the continents and a coordinator. They gather every two or three months here. Now, the first of July we have four days of meetings, and we are going to be making the changes that the very cardinals ask of us. It is not obligatory that we do it but it would be imprudent not to listen to those who know.

You have also made a great effort to become closer to the Orthodox Church.

The invitation to Jerusalem from my brother Bartholomew was to commemorate the encounter between Paul VI and Athenagoras I 50 years ago. It was an encounter after more than a thousand years of separation. Since the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church has made efforts to become closer and the Orthodox Church has done the same. some orthodox churches are closer than others. I wanted Bartholomew to be with me in Jerusalem and there emerged the plan to also come to the Vatican to pray. For him it was a risky step because they can throw it in his face, but this gesture of humility needed to be extended, and for us it's necessary because it's not conceivable that we Christians are divided, it's a historical sin that we have to repair.

In the face of the advance of atheism, what is your opinion of people who believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive?  

There was a rise in atheism in the most existential age, perhaps Sartrian. But after came a step toward spiritual pursuits, of encounter with God, in a thousand ways, not necessarily the traditional religions. The clash between science and faith peaked in the Enlightenment, but that is not so fashionable today, thank God, because we have all realized the closeness between one thing and the other. Pope Benedict XVI has a good teaching about the relation between science and faith. In general lines, the most recent is that the scientists are very respectful with the faith and the agnostic or atheist scientist says, “I don’t dare to enter that field.”

You have met many Heads of State.  

Many have come and it’s an interesting variety. Each one has their personality. What has called my attention is the cross made between young politicians, whether they are from the center, the left or the right. Maybe they talk about the same problems but with a new music, and this I like, this gives me hope because politics is one of the more elevated forms of love, of charity. Why? Because it leads to the common good, and a person who, [despite] being  able to do it, does not get involved in politics for the common good, is selfish; or that uses politics for their own good, is corrupt. Some fifteen years ago the French bishops wrote a pastoral letter reflecting on the theme “Restoring Politics.” This is a precious text that makes you realize all of these things.

What do you think of the renunciation of Benedict XVI?

Pope Benedict has made a very significant act. He has opened the door, has created an institution, that of the of the eventual popes emeritus. 70 years ago, there were no emeritus bishops. Today how many are there? Well, as we live longer, we arrive to an age where we cannot go on with things. I will do the same as him, asking the Lord to enlighten me when the time comes and that he tell me what I have to do, and and he will tell me for sure.

You have a room reserved in a retirement home in Buenos Aires.  

Yes, its a retirement house for elderly priests. I was leaving the archdiocese at the end of last year and and had already submitted my resignation to Benedict XVI when I turned 75. I chose a room and said “I want to come to live here.” I will work as a priest, helping the parishes. This is what was going to be my future before being Pope.  

I am not going to ask you whom you support in the World Cup….

Brazilians asked me to remain neutral (he laughs) and I  keep my word because Brazil and Argentina are always antagonistic. 

How would you like to be remembered in history?

I have not thought about it, but I like it when someone remembers someone and says: “He was a good guy, he did what he could. He wasn’t so bad.” I’m OK with that.

Read more:

http://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20140612/54408951579/entrevista-papa-francisco.html#ixzz34VC9wXkh  

This text was translated from the original Spanish by CNA's Alan Holdren, Estefania Augirre and Elise Harris.

Some christians do have problems with the Christian connection with Jews

Mainly American Christians do show their disgust with Judaism. Doing so they forget that Jeshua, Jesus Christ, the man who they are supposed to follow was a very devout Jew, belonging to the Jewish sect of the Essenes.

Many Americans say the Jews killed Jesus, but it would be the same as Europeans saying the Americans killed our compatriots in World War II or they killed the Afghanistan and the Iraqis and the Iranians and the Vietnamese and the Koreans and so on. It were some Jews and other people present in Jerusalem at that time who were agitated by the Pharisees and certain Jewish leaders, but not by all the Jews, who also saw in Jesus one of their own.

Also the new Pope is aware it would be better if more Christians started to investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity and the Christian flowering of Judaism.
Francis said.
 “I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it is possible to live as brothers.”
Francis’ statement seems to go further than his predecessor, St. John Paul II, who made headlines in 1986 as the first pope to visit Rome’s main synagogue and declared Jews to be the “elder brothers” of the Christian faith.
“Every day, I pray with the Psalms of David. My prayer is Jewish, then I have the Eucharist, which is Christian,”
the Argentine pontiff added.

Too many Christians do not use the Old Testament, but it was the main part of Jesus his teaching. At that time there was only the Old Testament which was brought to the beleivers in the One God, which was the Divine Creator, God of Adam, God of Abraham and the God of Israel, God His people.

Those Jews are still God His people, we may never forget that.

Certain  right-wing Christians in their denial of the Jewish connection even go so far to deny the Christians would not have killed many of those people of God. A denial of the Holocaust the pope criticizes as “madness.”


Deutsch: Pius XII., Glückwunschschreiben zum 1...
Deutsch: Pius XII., Glückwunschschreiben zum 100. Jubiläum des Pilger in Speyer (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
Francis I also defended the record of Pope Pius XII, who led the Roman Catholic Church during World War II. Francis will soon have to decide whether to advance the sainthood cause for the controversial wartime pope, who is accused of failing to speak out publicly against the mass murder of Jews. For years, Jewish leaders and Nazi hunters have demanded the Vatican open up its secret wartime files.


Some Jews have accused Pius, who ruled from 1939 to 1958, of turning a blind eye to the Holocaust. The controversy has put a strain on Catholic-Jewish relations for decades.


Francis said he was concerned about
 “everything which has been thrown at poor Pius XII,”
while stressing that he sheltered Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, as well as the popes’ summer residence in Castel Gadolfo. Strange though that the Catholic Church did not come sooner with proof of such actions. We do know about nuns and priests who took all possibilities to bring Jews in safety. Many also told lies to the German soldiers to protect others. Their concious may have got very harsh times. but how was the concious of pope Pius XII?

The Vatican says Pius worked behind the scenes to save thousands of Jews and did not speak out more forcefully for fear that his words could have led to more deaths of both Jews and Christians at the hands of the Nazis


Pope Francis warns us to be careful, all being able to make mistakes.
"I don't want to say that Pius XII did not make any mistakes - I myself make many - but he has to be seen in the context of that era. For example, was it better for him not to speak out so that more Jews were not killed, or that he speak out?"
he said and added that Pius XII ordered the Church to hide many Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, that he sheltered Jews in the papal summer residence south of Rome and that 42 children of Jews and other refugees were born in his apartments there.



Francis added that he breaks out in an “existential rash” when he hears people speak against Pius and the church’s wartime record while ignoring inaction by the Allies fighting against Nazi Germany or forgetting the responsibility of the great wartime powers.
“Did you know that they knew perfectly well the rail network used by the Nazis to take the Jews to the concentration camps? They had photographs,”
 “But they did not bomb these rail lines. Why? It would be nice if we spoke a little bit about everything.”
Already in the 1930ies English and Americans did know about certain plans of the Germans, but they did not find it appropriate to react then, when there was still time to prtect further escalation.


Last month, Francis visited the Yad Vashem memorial to Holocaust victims in Jerusalem. The Yad Vashem's website, addressing the issue of the allies' activity during the war, says:

 "In practice, no military initiatives were taken to prevent or delay the extermination."
While some historians have argued those train lines should have been bombed, other historians note the allies were losing planes and airmen at such a high rate, and the lasting effects of the bombing of those train lines would have been so slight, that bombing them made no military or humanitarian sense.


Jewish groups have asked Francis and his predecessors to freeze the process that could lead to sainthood for Pius until the all the World War Two era archives are opened to historians, saying Catholic-Jewish relations could be harmed if the process moved ahead.

Speaking to reporters on the plane returning from Jerusalem last month, Francis said the sainthood cause for Pius was stalled because he had not been credited with performing a miracle, which Church rules require, suggesting it was not stalled because of any outside pressure.

Francis also used that interview to condemn anti-Semitism. He reportedly said it is a continuing problem that was primarily seen in right-wing European political parties which still continue to try to bring a screen in front of the people by ignoring the facts of history like the holocaust.

Francis confirmed that he intends to open the Vatican archives wartime collection.

"They will shed a lot of light,"

 the Pope said.


During Friday’s interview with the Barcelona daily, Francis was also asked about his own security, saying he refused to travel in a bulletproof “sardine can” vehicle because he wants to mingle with ordinary people.
“It is true that anything can happen, but let’s face it, at my age I have nothing to lose,”
the 77-year-old pontiff said. The way he can  now be in contact with young and old is much more important. Such a personal contact can do the Catholic Church some good to reboost it again.