Tuesday 24 March 2015

Same sex realtionships and Open attitude mirroring Jesus

In Hiding or opening attitude for same sex relationships we pointed out that it perhaps would be better that people questioned themselves which attitude Jesus would take, before they judge somebody.

Director of Oasis Trust, Steve Chalke believes about our attitude to people who have an other feeling for giving their love to somebody are changing, albeit very slowly. Despite the Oasis Trust being forced to leave the Evangelical Alliance over his views on homosexuality,
 "it's amazing how the conversation won't go away. In fact it's growing, I think it's unstoppable,"
 he said.
"We as Christians should be intolerant of intolerance. I think that we should be on the front line of human and civil rights, and I think it's a tragedy that so often, as history has recorded, we drag our feet...The church is supposed to be standing up for faithfulness, integrity and family."
Chalke thinks that the Church will eventually come out in favour of faithful, same-sex relationships.
"I think the sandcastle of resistance is being overwhelmed by the incoming tide," he said.

After the rows and debates that have dominated for the past few years, one image of Britain's Christians is of a people obsessed with rules around sex and with stopping people from having sex, especially when it is gay sex or sex outside marriage.

there may not be many people in church any more but of those who are there we should not that one in 200 regular churchgoers have entered a formal relationship with someone of the same sex, according to research published in July 2014. In that survey conducted by Christian Research for Christian Today there was found that 0.6 per cent of churchgoers are in a civil partnership, slightly more than the number cohabiting.

Although statistically small, given the size of the survey, the number is high considering the widespread hostility to homosexual relationships among the leadership of many Christian churches. The Church of England and Catholic churches believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.
The poll researched 1,400 people aged over 16 who were representative of the country's churchgoing communities.

More than one in 20, or 5.8 per cent, were divorced or separated compared to six out of ten who were married. More than one in 20, or 6.5 per cent, were remarried after divorce.
More than two-thirds said that Christians should not cohabit before marriage, and nearly as many also believed Christians should marry other Christians, rather than those of other or no faith.

More than two-thirds believed that personal desire need not necessarily translate into physical sex. However, more than seven in ten agreed or strongly agreed:
 "My spouse/partner and I love the physical part of our relationship."
Nearly seven in ten thought their spouse or partner had been specially "put aside" for them by God, while fewer than half did or do prayer about the kind of person they wish to marry. Friends or family had tried to find matches for more than one in ten, and nearly half looked for their ideal partner within a Christian church or community. More than a third felt "carefree" during their dating days, but a fifth felt pressure to find the "right person".

Nearly eight in ten felt it important to marry another Christian and more than eight in ten did indeed marry another person of the Christian faith. Just one tenth had not been Christian before they married. those Christian communities which demand that people marry only people from the same faith-group forget to see that there are not enough people living around to provide enough partners. For smaller communities like the Christadelphians youngsters face even less possibilities to find a partner from the same Christadelphian community.

The proportion in civil partnerships is about half the number of people in the general population who describe themselves as gay. According to an Office for National Statistics survey last year 93.5 per cent of people are heterosexual, 1.1 per cent gay or lesbian and 0.4 per cent bisexual.

About getting parents and church-leaders to get to hear an other choice than the man-wife relationship the youngsters are still hesitant to let others know their taste. They are confronted with lots of talks about "healthy" and "unhealthy" physical relationships of married churchgoers. Not only is there today the problem in many church communities of being able to talk openly how to build up a sexual relationship or to discuss the feeling of becoming more confident to explore with enjoyment their God-given gift of sexual pleasure in marriage without some of the historical taboos and anxieties that have often traditionally shrouded the Christian sexual culture.

It took some time before the Belgian church wanted to react more openly after the many sex scandals about their priests and even bishops having had sexual intercourse with people of the same sex.

In 2014 on several occasions the Bishop of Antwerp, Rt Rev Johan Bonny, said that there should be "a recognition of diversity of forms" of relationship and gave the impression to be open for gay people in his community and for giving again communion to separated or remarried people.
"We have to look inside the Church for a formal recognition of the kind of interpersonal relationship that is also present in many gay couples,"
the Catholic 'church-father' said.
"Just as there are a variety of legal frameworks for partners in civil society, one must arrive at a diversity of forms in the Church."
We can see that the general public seems to become more open and acceptable for divorced people, which is no more considered abnormal, but more the traditional trend, nor to look surprised to find people who prefer to have an intimate relationship with somebody of the own sex or to even have a sex change. As such we get women who became man marrying with men who became woman, but also men with men and women with women.

Though the general public does not seem to be interested much in the long-standing relationship, the Roman Catholic church still finds intrinsic values more important than the institutional question and that those who want to live together should know that the Christian ethic is based on lasting relationships where exclusivity, loyalty, and care are central to each other.

That picture of "exclusivity, loyalty, and care for each other" was the main value which lots of people could not see because the wrong image given by gay-parades which accentuated a perverse form of living and presented a promotion for sodomy, which no church could ever allow  to happen under its flock.

Before the Vatican's Synod on the Family in October, Bonny issued an open letter saying that the Church needed to show more respect for homosexuality, divorced people and modern kinds of relationships.

While traditional marriage between a man and a woman
 "will continue to retain its own particular sacramental character and liturgical form", he said, "this particularity does not have to be exclusive nor does it have to close the door on a diversity of relationships whose inner qualities the Church can acknowledge".
He continued:
"Indeed, we need to seek a formal recognition of the kind of relationship that exists between many gay and lesbian couples. Does that recognition have to be a sacramental marriage? Perhaps the Church could much better reflect on a diversity of forms of relationships."
The last few years we have seen this diversity of forms of relationships growing a lot. We also find more and more clergy who agree that the church often did not treat other feeling people rightly. as such we could find Rt Rev Alan Wilson, who said at a PinkNews Awards that he is "ashamed" at the way gay people have been treated by the Church of England; and theologian Tony Campolo, who says he is
"conservative on the issue of the Bible and same-sex relationships".
We also can notice that more Christian artists and theologians are coming out and not only tell that they are gay but also are not ashamed any more to show their relationship with the other.

Though still many may look at others with a 'bad eye'. some do not want to talk about it openly , but do not mind to talk underhanded about 'certain people living a sinful lifestyle' and 'how wrong it is'. They are happy to throw with mud, but not openly, and forget that some two thousand years ago there was a teacher in Galilee who wanted to show people they had to take on an other attitude. That master teacher also asked those who wanted to throw stones to others to look first in their own heart and if they could find no sin, than perhaps they could react heavily.

Jesus didn’t judge those who were different and asked us also not to judge them but to leave the judging to his heavenly Father, God. It is this Divine Creator Who allows people to be here on earth. When He allows those who have other feelings than us to be here what are we to say? God did not  put us here to judge others.

We have the Bible that tells us what is right and what is wrong, but we’re not to pass judgement. People forget that God doesn’t grade on a curve; the heterosexual couple living together down the street is just as guilty as the gay couple living across the street. How are you to draw people to Christ if you have appointed yourself judge and jury?

When we look at others and when we would like to react we always should consider What Would Jesus Do! For sure we cann't put ourselves above Jesus, and should take into account his teachings. We also should take on an open attitude to draw them closer to Jesus his teachigns and to the Word of God, so that they can come to know it and live according it.

By bringing condemnation over those people we shall not be able to bring them closer to God. Just the opposite, we shall be able to keeping them at a distance or to cause that they shall come to judge All Christians as judgemental hypocrites.

We must be very careful that we live and act according to the teachings of Jesus Christ and approach people with the same attitude Jesus would do, which is with an open mind full of love and without judgement.

Let us always try to mirror our saviour Jesus Christ and remember:
Jas 4:10-12 The Scriptures 1998+  (10)  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Master, and He shall lift you up.  (11)  Brothers, do not speak against one another. He that speaks against a brother and judges his brother, speaks against Torah and judges Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of Torah but a judge.  (12)  There is one Lawgiver and Judge, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?


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Find also:

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Hiding or opening attitude for same sex relationships

In this world lots of people seem to question their own personality. From the babyboom generation there are a lot who have problems with their outer-side or do not feel happy with what they get inside and outside not colliding.

We perhaps may say that there has been an "ethical earthquake" in the past decade in several countries. In Belgium people do not look strange any more when they hear the people opposite them are a married gay couple. for women going with women that was already long ago accepted, but for men it was much longer more difficult to walk hand in hand or to show their same sex love to others.

The gay parades and open same sex parties did not help but the opposite confirmed such negative ideas certain people had about gay people. Those events mostly accentuated perverse actions, though lots of gay people have a personal private relationship with one partner of the same sex, and are not interested in having partnerships with many.

Change in the feeling of the English people is notated by the results of the research by the Oasis Trust. According to the review almost half (49.6 per cent) of Christians across the main 11 denominations believe that monogamous same-sex relationships should be fully embraced and encouraged. More than two-thirds of respondents (68 per cent) said that their views have become more inclusive over the past decade, with 61 per cent noting that the shift had come as a result of "understanding or interpreting the Bible differently".

This is the most difficult issue, how to interpret the Bible and how to look at people with other feelings than your own.  I would say people should look more at Jesus and see how he went about people who were different than others, or who had an other ethic or other religious point of view. Can we see the churches of today take on such a gracious patient attitude as Christ did?

In many countries we also can see that the churchgoers have less problems about the gender issues than the church-leaders. Ten per cent are more likely to support gay marriage than their leaders, but Oasis found that those clergy who supported same-sex relationships were also reluctant to share their views. Some respondents said that admitting to it could put funding at risk, or even cost them their job.
"Whatever the stereotype, it's clear that attitudes in the church toward loving, committed and faithful same-sex relationships are changing,"  
director of Oasis, Steve Chalke said, adding
Many of the most senior church leaders in the country have said they support same-sex relationships, but feel they cannot state it publicly
"It's crucial that we keep talking about it."
According to the survey, the most accepting denomination of same-sex relationships is the Quakers – with 100 per cent of those asked saying that they had no problem with those in faithful same-sex relationships fulfilling a leadership role in the church.
Almost 9 in 10 (88 per cent) of Methodists agreed, along with 79 per cent of those who belong to the United Reformed Churches. Just over half of Anglicans (57 per cent) also affirmed their support of gay people participating in all areas and levels of the church.

The majority of respondents said they would be comfortable with their church leader conducting a blessing or marriage ceremony for a gay couple, but some people who said they had no issue with same-sex relationships didn't think churches should hold gay weddings. Five per cent said they were definitely against it, while eight per cent favoured a blessing.

Please read:


Friday 20 March 2015

Old Earth creationists and other conservative Christians denying any evolution

Views on Evolution
Views on Evolution (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
When we looked at North America the last ten years we could see that very conservative Christians gained terrain and could blown up the whole evolution thing in a ridiculous way.

A big problem with the creationists is that they all undermine the normal Christian thinking and Christian concept of creation and the relationship of man versus the creation. Very bad, not to say 'ridiculous' is their ignorant attitude to all historical and scientific findings, which makes others to step away form such people who do not want to believe what we all can see with our own eyes.

Their wrong concept of evolution is not taken on by all Christians, and the world should know than there are enough Christians who look at creation in other ways than they do.

Irving Hexham, a religion and politics professor at the University of Calgary, said evolution - like abortion - is a divisive issue among evangelical Christians. He doesn't think there is any reason why Christians can't believe in evolution, and throughout the world, a lot of Christians do.

Natalie Odd, an Alberta Party member and mother of two, attended an open house held by Mr. Gordon Dirks over the weekend, hoping to confront the minister about spending cuts. Having taken him aside she also began to question him about another evolution.

"He said, it's possible to believe in creation and evolution. I wasn't getting an answer out of him," she said. "As we were walking away, he threw up his hands and said: ‘I'm an Old Earth Guy.'"

The comments were confirmed by other attendees, and Mr. Heyman.
Ms. Odd said she had to look the phrase up on the Internet as she was unfamiliar with it.

Brian Alters knows the term quite well, however. Alters is president for the U.S.-based National Center for Science Education, a professor at Chapman University in California and previously on the faculty of McGill University. He said "Old Earth" creationism encompasses a spectrum of beliefs. Old Earth creationists generally accept that the earth is older than 10,000 years. Beyond that, however, beliefs range. Some believe that evolution is the mechanism by which God guides life on earth. Others totally reject the generally accepted scientific theory of biological evolution.

Mr. Dirks declined to elaborate on his view further when questioned by the Post.

"With the education minister, if this is something that he practices in his place of worship with colleagues of similar faith, I think most scientists wouldn't have the slightest problem," Mr. Alters said. "The problem is if the education minister says ‘I'm an Old Earth creationist because I think there's credible evidence against evolution. I find evolution to not be credible.' Then we have big problems, Houston."

Read more in:
Being a creationist conservative in Canada ‘gives your opponents a tremendous amount of ammunition’


Find more about the creation



Wednesday 18 March 2015

London an exaggerated microcosm of the UK at large

English: Ladbroke Grove Looking north towards ...
English: Ladbroke Grove Looking north towards the railway bridge. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
The city where I loved living in but could not afford it any more has even become more impossible to reside for many. People who have lived there for generations, who are born there have no alternative to leave the city and look for cheaper ground to reside.

Striking new figures show that the proportion of households classified as either poor or wealthy has grown across the United Kingdom in recent decades, leaving a shrinking middle. But it is in London that the trend is by far the most pronounced.
London is now a city of contradictions. It is the richest part of the country, but also its most unequal, with the highest levels of poverty. It is home to some of the world’s most expensive real estate, but has the highest proportion of renters of any area of the country, many of whom are locked out of home ownership. It has some of the world’s best teaching hospitals, but suffers from profound health inequalities.

As with every cosmopolitan you get an exaggerated microcosm of the country at large, distilling its inequality to concentrated extremes.

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Most of London’s poor have jobs, many of which do not pay the minimum wage thanks to unscrupulous companies using tricks like keeping tips to top up wages. They don’t bat an eyelid at commuting over two hours on three buses to get to their office-cleaning jobs because they can’t afford the tube, or because they need to start at 4am so they can clear out by the time the office workers arrive. They live with the fear their teenage children will get caught up in the gang violence that barely touches the professionals who walk the same streets in Peckham, Ladbroke Grove and King’s Cross. Yes, London has wonderful free museums and parks – but who has time to visit them when you’re trying to hold down two or three jobs?

Read more about it:

The Observer view on London’s wealth gap

Saints is relative

Mother Teresa of Calcutta (26.8.1919-5.9.1997)...
Mother Teresa of Calcutta (26.8.1919-5.9.1997); at a pro-life meeting in 1986 in Bonn, Germany (Photo credit: Wikipedia)
In the world of man we can find lots of people who are venerated. Many are called saints and are worshipped as very import people who could bring us closer to God. But is that reallly so.

Are the many idols which even get churches made for them, like Elvis Presley, Christopher Columbus, Cervantes and many others, really such holy figures?

In 2003 the Catholic Church beatified Anjeze Gonxhe Bojaxhiu who was born in albania and spend most of her life in India as Mother Teresa. She made niceties with right-wing Haitian Dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier and accepted money from him which had been stolen from Haiti’s poor. Duvalier was known for stealing millions from Haiti’s poor so that he could maintain his own lavish lifestyle and profited from drug trafficking and selling the body parts of deceased Haitians.

also questions are posed by the way she gave treatment and medical care to the sick and poor in her hospices which were observed to be wholly unsanitary. Of some of them it is said they were wholly insufficient, and had inadequate crucial pain management for the dying. Her hospices were found to not even distinguish between terminally ill patients and those who could be cured. Consequently, patients with curable illness died from the poor, unsanitary treatment they received from Mother Teresa’s facilities.

Read more about it:

10 Secrets The Catholic Church Hopes You’ve Forgotten

Tuesday 3 March 2015

February 2015 got new little lights shining on internet

On February 7, 2015 the First blog post was placed on C4U (Christ For You - Christadelphians For You)
On February 11 2015 C4All was created and got its first article "Welcome".

On the same day (2015 February 11) "Starting block" was presented as the first article on "Messiah for all" which would become the final chosen program to present Jesus to the general public. It was because the try outs on different web-programs or blog systems did not give satisfaction that I tried looking for a good solution.

Having put all that work in several systems, some where abandoned as not good at all, and one I would advice people never to try out because the system is infected and brings viruses to the computer of the user and all the work I had invested in it was all for nothing because a few hours after I thought I had made it, everything was gone (except the infection on my pc). (So please do not go to the Weebly site and do not try to invest tie over there falling in their promises of giving you a very nice way to blog.) (All the previous years I have used Avast, but those days I was trying out Bitdefender. Now I am back on the more protecting Avast which let less spam and other ad systems come into my system.)

To be honest, the three sites took so much work and I do find the result not so bad that I found I could keep those three mentioned above. C4U and C4All to bring very short notices and referral articles to the main site about Jesus Christ "Messiah for all". Al three want to present the reason why the Christadelphians are lovers of Christ and why you and all other people should become lovers of Jesus as well.

"Why choose us" wants to give the reason why it would not be bad to come to read more articles at the C4U site. "C4U- its believes" can give you an idea what we believe and what drives us to witness for Jehovah and for Jesus.

The Christadelphians are a very small community, which can use some introduction. Lots of people also find some unjust sayings about us, Christadelphians, Bible Students, Jehovah Witnesses and other non-trinitarians. Because so much rubbish is been told on the net about the Christadelphians we want to make things clear on C4U and also give a picture of what it means to belong to the City of Christ or Christadelphia. (Christadelphian, Christadelphia and Christadelphos)

I have some other blogs which are totally different from my secular blog Marcus Ampe's Space. I prefer to use other blogs to present my spiritual or religious views. But there and on other blogs where I reacted on certain writings I got accused of being a hater of God and a hater of Jesus.
With the new blogs I now want to proof that I am perhaps a grater lover of God and a greater lover of Jesus than they who do not want to accept the Words of God and the words of God His son, Jesus Christ.



In "Christ for you and You for Christ" the start-shot is given for the Biblical view of Jesus Christ, to which the Christadelphians want to keep themselves. They do not want to take on the human doctrines but aim to keep to what is written in the Bible or Holy scriptures, which we consider to be the infallible Word of God.

The three new blogs want to put their focus on Jesus. To present the whole picture "Messiah for all" goes way back to the beginning of everything. As such the first few weeks there shall be several writings on the creation period, Who is behind it, what happened and how Jesus came in the picture at the beginning of times.

On Messiah for all is looked at how Something came from nothing  and what Scripture says about Creation and Creator Deity.
And naturally we can't avoid looking at How Many Persons Created the Heavens and the Earth.

That the new site "Messiah for all" does not want to go away from more difficult subjects in Christendom can be seen in the publication of Genesis 1 story does not take away an evolution.

"Focussing on oneness with Jesus - like Jesus is one with God" is what the apostles did and also asked the followers of Jesus to do. I with the Christadelphians consider myself and my community belonging to the Body of Christ, being brothers and sisters who want to share their love for Christ with each other and being thankful to the Most High for Him accepting Jesus his ransom offer.

May I invite you to come and have a look at the new sites and to give your impression on our presentation of the "world for Christ with Jesus".


  1. Messiah for all at Wordpress
  2. C4All at over-blog
  3. Christadelphians at wix.com with C4U or Christadelphians-4u
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Please do find also to read:
  1. Looking for Free Blogs and blogging
  2. Lovers of God, seekers and lovers of truth

  3. Those who love Jesus

  4. To remove the whitewash of the Jehovah Witnesses as being the only true Bible Students and Bible Researchers

  5. A beginning with many false starts 

  6. Starting block

  7. Follower of Jesus part of a cult or a Christian
  8. Those who call the Christadelphians a cult
  9. Words to inspire and to give wisdom
  10. Salvation and Righteousness
  11. Observing the commandments and becoming doers of the Word
  12. Wishing to do the will of God
  13. Christianity is a love affair 
  14. The Law of Christ: Law of Love
  15. The Greatest of These is Love
  16. The first on the list of the concerns of the saint   
  17. Agape, a love to share with others from the Fruit of the Spirit
  18. The task given to us to love each other
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